Sounds a lot like falling in love. You spend time with someone and think you are getting to know them. Then they say something that reveals a deeper level you had no idea existed, and you think you are getting to know them better. Repeat, ad nauseam, and you get the feeling of approaching true understanding but never quite get there - that feeling of adventure or exploration, which I think lies close to the core of being human.
Interesting reflection, but wouldn't it apply to many societies, not just China's? I think one could say something similar about African, Arab, Latin American, and even Russian societies. There will always be a superficial level of knowledge, that which texts can give you, and the other level of knowledge that comes from being part of that culture. Mind you, even in the example you give, the Chinese may not fully understand their own culture or what China really is.
True. I thought of that too. But I think, everything else the same: I am say, 30y old and I decide to learn that special Arabic world. I could do it; but I am not sure for China. And that is my main point: the "forbidden" world
The only way to understand a country is to learn its language and work there for at least 2 or 3 years. This is based on my experience, I don't know if it can be generalised.
It's reverse Dunning-Kruger. The more you know the more you realize how much you don't know. Socrates was the first to recognize this. I spent ten years in a small European country and 25 in the US -- really don't think I understand either one very well - at least not in the way what I would have expected. Makes me realize that I probably don't really understand my home country that well either -- I just assumed I did because I grew up there, and we tend to think knowledge of our own culture as somehow inherent. I think the idea that we can understand countries the size of the US or China is probably just wrong. Perhaps a city where one lives, as long as it is not too big, but beyond that? Keep in mind that nation-states were considerably smaller before the industrial revolution and even then highly regionalized, even with quite distinct languages and dialects. The modern nation as something one understands because one belongs to it and identifies with it, is one of the great 19th century myths.
Interesting story. I've always felt that if you meet someone and find them uninteresting, you just don't know them well enough. Of course, we can never know the other well enough.
Chinese colleague at the WB (very shy woman from the provinces, mid-30s, US econ PhD) on a Bank mission to Abidjan. Saturday night, she's not invited anywhere, so she decides to do something she has never done -- goes to the bar of the Hotel Ivoire to have a drink all by herself. Gets to the bar, orders something, noting, thankfully, the place is empty. Almost empty, that is. Sitting in a dark corner is a young man from China about her age. The man joins her uninvited with his drink. They immediately discover they're from same province (distinctive regional accent, it seems). Guy asks her what she does, etc. She eventually asks him what he does. Guy doesnt say a word; unlocks his briefcase and shows her -- it is full of USD. She starts to ask "arent you afraid to carry all that money around ... ?
She thought better of that question, finished her drink, and went quickly back to her room.
I guess the only foreign country that didn't feel unknowable to me was America. All those cultural exports over the years have made the place close and familiar. Which makes me wonder if China might feel like that 50 years from now, once they flex that cultural export muscle.
5,000 years of history vs a country revolting against history. Deep knowledge vs Superficial knowledge. Deep knowledge involves a flexible, conceptual understanding that can be applied in new contexts, while superficial knowledge is often a collection of isolated facts that are difficult to transfer or apply beyond the original context. You happen to come from history but many here, have no clue what it is. Perhaps you're yearning for it
I don’t understand Italy, even though I was born there and lived there for decades. When you live somewhere, your experiences and your feelings become tied to it, and you become part of it. That’s what you can share with someone else that has this same experience in common with you. You won’t understand anything in general, but you will have the feeling of understanding something about yourself.
Sounds a lot like falling in love. You spend time with someone and think you are getting to know them. Then they say something that reveals a deeper level you had no idea existed, and you think you are getting to know them better. Repeat, ad nauseam, and you get the feeling of approaching true understanding but never quite get there - that feeling of adventure or exploration, which I think lies close to the core of being human.
Interesting reflection, but wouldn't it apply to many societies, not just China's? I think one could say something similar about African, Arab, Latin American, and even Russian societies. There will always be a superficial level of knowledge, that which texts can give you, and the other level of knowledge that comes from being part of that culture. Mind you, even in the example you give, the Chinese may not fully understand their own culture or what China really is.
True. I thought of that too. But I think, everything else the same: I am say, 30y old and I decide to learn that special Arabic world. I could do it; but I am not sure for China. And that is my main point: the "forbidden" world
How can you learn about arab world. It is also big
The only way to understand a country is to learn its language and work there for at least 2 or 3 years. This is based on my experience, I don't know if it can be generalised.
It's reverse Dunning-Kruger. The more you know the more you realize how much you don't know. Socrates was the first to recognize this. I spent ten years in a small European country and 25 in the US -- really don't think I understand either one very well - at least not in the way what I would have expected. Makes me realize that I probably don't really understand my home country that well either -- I just assumed I did because I grew up there, and we tend to think knowledge of our own culture as somehow inherent. I think the idea that we can understand countries the size of the US or China is probably just wrong. Perhaps a city where one lives, as long as it is not too big, but beyond that? Keep in mind that nation-states were considerably smaller before the industrial revolution and even then highly regionalized, even with quite distinct languages and dialects. The modern nation as something one understands because one belongs to it and identifies with it, is one of the great 19th century myths.
Interesting story. I've always felt that if you meet someone and find them uninteresting, you just don't know them well enough. Of course, we can never know the other well enough.
Chinese colleague at the WB (very shy woman from the provinces, mid-30s, US econ PhD) on a Bank mission to Abidjan. Saturday night, she's not invited anywhere, so she decides to do something she has never done -- goes to the bar of the Hotel Ivoire to have a drink all by herself. Gets to the bar, orders something, noting, thankfully, the place is empty. Almost empty, that is. Sitting in a dark corner is a young man from China about her age. The man joins her uninvited with his drink. They immediately discover they're from same province (distinctive regional accent, it seems). Guy asks her what she does, etc. She eventually asks him what he does. Guy doesnt say a word; unlocks his briefcase and shows her -- it is full of USD. She starts to ask "arent you afraid to carry all that money around ... ?
She thought better of that question, finished her drink, and went quickly back to her room.
It is a great way for start a novel. Will I continue?
Interesting thought.
Or perhaps the end of a short story.
I guess the only foreign country that didn't feel unknowable to me was America. All those cultural exports over the years have made the place close and familiar. Which makes me wonder if China might feel like that 50 years from now, once they flex that cultural export muscle.
5,000 years of history vs a country revolting against history. Deep knowledge vs Superficial knowledge. Deep knowledge involves a flexible, conceptual understanding that can be applied in new contexts, while superficial knowledge is often a collection of isolated facts that are difficult to transfer or apply beyond the original context. You happen to come from history but many here, have no clue what it is. Perhaps you're yearning for it
I don’t understand Italy, even though I was born there and lived there for decades. When you live somewhere, your experiences and your feelings become tied to it, and you become part of it. That’s what you can share with someone else that has this same experience in common with you. You won’t understand anything in general, but you will have the feeling of understanding something about yourself.
I felt this way leaving Russia 15 years ago after a 2-week vacation. I got to stay with a friend for a few days, then went on my own.
China really feels like a separate planet sometimes. China does not just have regional "accents", it has regional languages.